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THE MORMON DOCTRINE OF DEITY THE ROBERTS-VAN DER DONCKT DISCUSSION
THE MORMON DOCTRINE OF DEITY THE ROBERTS-VAN DER DONCKT DISCUSSION
TO WHICH IS ADDED A DISCOURSE JESUS CHRIST: THE REVELATION OF GOD BY B. H. ROBERTS. ALSO A COLLECTION OF AUTHORITATIVE MORMON UTTERANCES ON THE BEING AND NATURE OF GOD. "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God; and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another."—Joseph Smith. "He who possesses a knowledge of God, and a knowledge of man, will not easily commit sin."—Talmud. Salt Lake City, Utah. 1903....
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PREFACE.
PREFACE.
In nothing have men so far departed from revealed truth as in their conceptions of God. Therefore, when it pleased the Lord in these last days to open again direct communication with men, by a new dispensation of the gospel, it is not surprising that the very first revelation given was one that revealed himself and his Son Jesus Christ. A revelation which not only made known the being of God, but the kind of a being he is. The Prophet Joseph Smith, in his account of his first great revelation, d
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THE "MORMON" DOCTRINE OF DEITY.[A]
THE "MORMON" DOCTRINE OF DEITY.[A]
[Footnote A: A lecture originally delivered before the conference of the Mutual Improvement Associations of the Salt Lake Stake of Zion, August 18, 1901.]...
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I. FORM OF GOD.
I. FORM OF GOD.
MY brethren and sisters, there are two things which conjoin to make this conference of the Young Men's and Young Women's Improvement Associations of Salt Lake Stake of Zion an interesting occasion. One is the approaching working season of the Young Men's Associations. They will this winter take up a course of study in "Mormon" doctrine—the first principles of the Gospel, or at least, some of those principles; and a large division of the Manual which has been prepared for their use will deal with
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II. THE ONENESS OF GOD.
II. THE ONENESS OF GOD.
There are some expressions of scripture to consider which speak of the "oneness" of God. Speaking of the question which agitated the early Christian Church about eating meats which had been offered to idols, Paul says: "We know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one." [A] Moreover, Jesus himself made this strange remark—that is, strange until one understands it: "I and my Father are one;" and so much one are they that he said: "He that hath seen me hath se
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III. THE PLURALITY OP GODS.
III. THE PLURALITY OP GODS.
There are several other items in this branch of the subject that would be of interest to discuss; but I must pay a little attention to the indictment brought against us by sectarian ministers on the question of a plurality of Gods. We have already shown that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct persons, and, so far as personality is concerned, are three Gods. Their "oneness" consists in being possessed of the same mind; they are one, too, in wisdom, in knowledg
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IV. The Future Possibilities for Man.
IV. The Future Possibilities for Man.
Is there any doubt about men being the sons of God? If I thought there was any in your minds, I would like to read to you the words of an authority upon this question. Paul, in speaking of the unknown God to whom the Athenians had erected an altar, said to them: God that made the world and all things therein * * * hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed and the bounds of their habitation; that they should
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I.
I.
I am very grateful for the privilege of being allowed space in your magazine to reply to Mr. B. H. Roberts' defense of the "Mormon Views of the Deity." 1. First, Mr. Roberts asserts: "Jesus came with no abstract definition of God." He certainly gave a partial definition of God when declaring: "God is a spirit" (John 4:24). Now, although we must believe whatever God reveals to us upon one single word of his, just as firmly as upon a thousand, nevertheless, I will add that St. Paul, who solemnly t
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II.
II.
Above, I proved God's immutability from the Bible; now I prove it from philosophy, or the light of reason. Mutation or change is the passing from one state into another. The Infinite Being is not liable to change, as change implies an imperfection in the being susceptible of it, as that being had not in the previous state what it has in the subsequent, or vice versa . God having all perfections must be unchangeable. Therefore, he is not a man grown into a God. The Necessary Being is such that he
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I. THE FORM OF GOD.
I. THE FORM OF GOD.
Following the order of my treatise, the gentleman first deals with the form of God. His first premise is that " God is a Spirit ," quoting the words of the Savior (John 4:24;) and Paul's words, "The Lord is a spirit," (II Cor. 3:17.) He then argues that a spirit is different from a man, and quotes the remark of Jesus to his disciples, when he appeared to them after his resurrection: "A spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have" (Luke 24:37-39). Also the words of Jesus to Peter, "Flesh an
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II. MR. VAN DER DONCKT'S "PHILOSOPHICAL PROOFS" OF THE FORM AND NATURE OF GOD.
II. MR. VAN DER DONCKT'S "PHILOSOPHICAL PROOFS" OF THE FORM AND NATURE OF GOD.
Mr. Van Der Donckt, at the beginning of his argument under his "philosophical proofs of God's simplicity or spirituality," again exhibits the fact that he misapprehends the doctrines of the Latter-day Saints. He says: "The Latter-day Saints believe that God created the souls of men long before their conception." That is not the belief of the Latter-day Saints; and his misapprehension of what their doctrine is relative to man and God leads the gentleman to make statements, and indulge in lines of
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III. MR. VAN DER DONCKT'S CONTRASTS BETWEEN MAN AND GOD.
III. MR. VAN DER DONCKT'S CONTRASTS BETWEEN MAN AND GOD.
Mr. Van Der Donckt insists that man can never become a God, because he "is finite or limited in everything; ever changeable and changing, ever susceptible of improvement." Granting that man is ever susceptible of improvement, ought not the gentleman to proceed with some caution before dogmatically asserting that there are to be limitations to man's enlargement, to his progress, and to his attainments? Given the susceptibility to improve, never ending duration through which the processes of impro
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OF THE UNITY OF GOD.
OF THE UNITY OF GOD.
There remains to be considered the Unity of God. The Latter-day Saints believe in the unity of the creative and governing force or power of the universe as absolutely as any orthodox Christian sect in the world. One cannot help being profoundly impressed with the great truth that creation, throughout its whole extent, bears evidence of being one system, presents at every point unity of design, and harmony in its government. Nor am I unmindful of the force there is in the deduction usually drawn
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I. JESUS CHRIST: THE REVELATION OF GOD.[A]
I. JESUS CHRIST: THE REVELATION OF GOD.[A]
[Footnote A: A discourse delivered in the Tabernacle, Ogden, Utah, Tuesday evening, April 22, 1902, under the auspices of the Young Men's Mutual Improvement Association of the Weber Stake of Zion.] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent (St. John's Gospel 17:3). And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that it true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus
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II. EVIDENCE OF CHRIST'S DIVINITY FROM THE SCRIPTURE.
II. EVIDENCE OF CHRIST'S DIVINITY FROM THE SCRIPTURE.
It is my desire on this occasion to place in the hands of the Elders of Israel such tangible proofs from the Scriptures concerning Jesus Christ being "God manifested in the flesh," that they will be able hereafter to maintain the doctrine taught upon this subject by the Church; it is my desire to cite you evidence from which our young men may maintain the doctrine that God is an exalted man. For be it known unto you, that plain and from the scriptures indisputable as this doctrine of ours is, th
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III. THE CHARACTER OF GOD REVEALED IN THE LIFE OF JESUS CHRIST.
III. THE CHARACTER OF GOD REVEALED IN THE LIFE OF JESUS CHRIST.
Having proved from the scriptures that Jesus Christ is God, and the revelation of God to man, I come to another branch of my subject. I now wish to show you that Jesus Christ manifested God also in his life; and although I have been addressing you for some time, I am quite sure you yourselves would not be entirely satisfied with the treatise upon this subject, unless I pointed out how God would act under the variety of circumstances in which it is our privilege to behold him placed. First of all
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The Father and the Son are Represented as Distinct Persons, and also as Being in the Form of Men, in the First Vision of the Prophet of the New Dispensation.
The Father and the Son are Represented as Distinct Persons, and also as Being in the Form of Men, in the First Vision of the Prophet of the New Dispensation.
It is well known that while the Prophet Joseph Smith was a lad, but fourteen years of age, he became much exercised on the subject of religion, and very much perplexed in consequence of the division and strife existing among the religious sects, by which he was surrounded. And now his own account as to how he sought wisdom and obtained a very important revelation, in which he learned very important truths, both concerning God and the state of the religious world: In the midst of this war of word
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THE DOCTRINE OF THE GODHEAD ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF MORMON.
THE DOCTRINE OF THE GODHEAD ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF MORMON.
The Book of Mormon is not a formal treatise on the subject of theology. It is in the main an abridgment of ancient Nephite and Jaredite records, and recounts the hand-dealings of God with these ancient peoples. The existence of God it takes for granted, and, of course, since its revelations are local, that is, they pertain to this earth and its inhabitants only, it has reference to our Godhead alone. It makes reference, therefore, only to our God, and speaks of him in the singular number—as bein
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THE DOCTRINES OF THE GODHEAD AND MAN ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM.
THE DOCTRINES OF THE GODHEAD AND MAN ACCORDING TO THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM.
The book of Abraham came into the hands of the Prophet Joseph Smith in the form of Egyptian papyrus, in the summer of 1835. The following winter in his history the Prophet frequently speaks of working upon the translation of this ancient record. The translation was not completed and published, however, until March, 1842, at Nauvoo, when it appeared in the Times and Seasons , numbers 9 and 10, Vol. III. In his writings and teachings the Prophet frequently refers to this ancient record with every
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THE GODHEAD ACCORDING TO THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS.
THE GODHEAD ACCORDING TO THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS.
The book of Doctrine and Covenants in the main is a collection of revelations given through the Prophet Joseph Smith. It is not a formal treatise upon theology. This collection of revelations assumes the existence of God, and only incidentally treats of His being and attributes. And since the revelations pertain to our earth, and its heavens, and our God, the singular number is used in speaking of God; and yet in these revelations the persons of the Godhead are spoken of as being distinct from o
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THE "MORMON" DOCTRINE OF DEITY AS SET FORTH IN THE DISCOURSES OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH AND EARLY CHURCH PUBLICATIONS.
THE "MORMON" DOCTRINE OF DEITY AS SET FORTH IN THE DISCOURSES OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH AND EARLY CHURCH PUBLICATIONS.
[Footnote A: Millenial Star , vol. xxiii, p. 245 et seq. ] It is necessary for us to have an understanding of God himself in the beginning. * * * * There are but a very few beings in the world who understand rightly the character of God. The great majority of mankind do not comprehend anything, either that which is past, or that which is to come, as respects their relationship to God. * * * * If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves. * * * * What sort of a
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USE OF THE WORD ELOHIM.[A]
USE OF THE WORD ELOHIM.[A]
BY PROFESSOR W. H. CHAMBERLIN, OF THE BRIGHAM YOUNG COLLEGE, LOGAN, UTAH. [Footnote A: During the progress of the discussion between the Rev. C. Van Der Donckt and myself, as published in the Improvement Era , Professor William H. Chamberlin of the Brigham Young College, Logan, Utah, contributed the following brief though valuable paper on the use of the word "Elohim" in the Bible, which by his kind consent I am permitted to publish here.] Two words, El , of which Elim was the plural form, and E
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OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD.[A]
OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD.[A]
BY ELDER WILLIAM HENRY WHITTALL. [Footnote A: Millennial Star Vol. xxiii No. 19, p. 292.] In comparing the ideas of others with our own upon any subject, with a view of coming to a clear understanding and just conclusion on the points discussed, it is both important and necessary that a clear definition of terms be given and received. Most of the disputes which arise in all classes of society, religious and secular, would be avoided to a great extent, if the disputants clearly understood and att
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I.
I.
The Priesthood was first given to Adam; he obtained the First Presidency, and held the keys of it from generation to generation. He obtained it in the creation, before the worlds were formed, as in Genesis 1:20, 26, 28. He had dominion given him over every living creature. He is Michael, the Archangel, spoken of in the Scriptures. Then to Noah, who is Gabriel; he stands next in authority to Adam in the Priesthood; he was called of God to this office, and was the Father of all living in his day,
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II.
II.
In order to investigate the subject of the Priesthood, so important to this as well as every succeeding generation, I shall proceed to trace the subject, as far as I possibly can, from the Old and New Testaments. There are two Priesthoods spoken of in the Scripture, viz., the Melchizedek and the Aaronic or Levitical. Although there are two Priesthoods, yet the Melchisedek Priesthood comprehends the Aaronic or Levitical Priesthood, and is the grand head, and holds the highest authority which pert
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OF ADAM AND HIS RELATION TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH.
OF ADAM AND HIS RELATION TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH.
(From the Doctrine and Covenants.) In March, 1832, the Lord gave a revelation to the Church commanding them to effect an organization for the betterment of their material condition, that the poor might be better cared for, and all the Saints be more equal in the possession of earthly things, and then adds: That you may come up to the crown prepared for you, and be made rulers over many kingdoms, saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Zion, who hath established the foundations of Adam-ondi-Ahman; wh
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THE LIVING GOD.[A]
THE LIVING GOD.[A]
( From the Times and Seasons. ) [Footnote A: The article under this title, is an editorial in the "Times and Seasons," published at Nauvoo, Feb. 15, 1845, presumably written by the late President John Taylor, who, at the time it was written, was both editor and proprietor of the "Times and Seasons."] There is no subject among men, that engrosses so much time and attention, and, at the same time, is so little understood, as the being, knowledge, substance, attributes, and disposition of the livin
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MATERIALITY.[A]
MATERIALITY.[A]
(From the "Prophet.") [Footnote A: This article on the nature of God, man, and angels appears in the editorial columns of the "Prophet" for May 24, 1845. The "Prophet" was published in New York and Boston, and at the time of the appearance of this article Elder Parley P. Pratt was the editor, and hence it was doubtless written by him.] God, the Father, is material. Jesus Christ is material. Angels are material. Spirits are material. Men are material. The universe is material. Space is full of ma
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I. PRESIDENT BRIGHAM YOUNG.[A]
I. PRESIDENT BRIGHAM YOUNG.[A]
To Know God is Eternal Life. [Footnote A: This discourse was delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, February 8, 1857. Journal of Discourses , Vol. IV, pp. 215 et seq .] It is one of the first principles of the doctrine of salvation to become acquainted with our Father and our God. The Scriptures teach that this is eternal life, to "know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent;" this is as much as to say that no man can enjoy or be prepared for eternal life without tha
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II. ELDER ORSON PRATT.[A]
II. ELDER ORSON PRATT.[A]
Salvation Tangible—Personality and Character of God—Jesus our Elder Brother—Transformation of the Earth—Its Final Destiny. [Footnote A: This discourse was delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Nov. 12, 1876.] As a people the Latter-day Saints have passed through many scenes trying and afflicting to their natures, and they have endured them because of the anxiety of their hearts to obtain salvation. People who are sincere will manifest their sincerity in undergoing great tribulation, if ne
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"I KNOW THAT MY REDEEMER LIVES."[A]
"I KNOW THAT MY REDEEMER LIVES."[A]
President Joseph F. Smith on the "Mormon" Doctrine of Deity. [Footnote A: This discourse was delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, March 16,1902, and by the kind permission of President Smith I am allowed to reproduce it here.] My beloved brethren and sisters, while listening to the singing of the last hymn, my mind reverted to a revelation contained in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and I feel impressed to read a portion of it, and then make a few remarks concerning it, if I am led
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Gift of the Holy Ghost.
Gift of the Holy Ghost.
But the gift of the Holy Ghost, which bears record of the Father and the Son, which takes of the things of the Father and shows them unto men, which testifies of Jesus Christ, and of the ever-living God, the Father of Jesus Christ, and which bears witness of the truth—this Spirit, this intelligence is not given unto all men until they repent of their sins and come into a state of worthiness before the Lord. Then they receive it by the laying on of the hands of those who are authorized of God to
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Jesus, the Father of this World.
Jesus, the Father of this World.
I will read a little further: And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one. I do not apprehend that any intelligent person will construe these words to mean that Jesus and his Father are one person, but merely that they are one in knowledge, in truth, in wisdom, in understanding, and in purpose; just as the Lord Jesus himself admonished his disciples to be one with him, and to be in him, that he might be in them. It is in this sense that I understand this langu
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Glorious Possibilities of Man.
Glorious Possibilities of Man.
What a glorious thought is inspired in the heart when we read sentiments like this, that even Christ himself was not perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness. Is not this to be so with the children of men? Is any man perfect? Has any man received a fulness at once? Have we reached a point wherein we may receive the fulness of God, of his glory and his intelligence? No; and yet if J
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Man to Become Like Christ.
Man to Become Like Christ.
In other words, the spirit without the body is not perfect, and the body without the spirit is dead. Man was ordained in the beginning to become like Jesus Christ, to become conformed unto his image. As Jesus was born of woman, lived and grew to manhood, was put to death and raised from the dead to immortality and eternal life, so it was decreed in the beginning that man should be, and will be, through the atonement of Jesus, in spite of himself, resurrected from the dead. Death came upon us wit
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Personal Testimony.
Personal Testimony.
Now, my brethren and sisters, I know that my Redeemer lives. I feel it in every fiber of my being. I am just as satisfied of it as I am of my own existence. I cannot feel more sure of my own being than I do that my Redeemer lives, and that my God lives, the Father of my Savior. I feel it in my soul; I am converted to it in my whole being. I bear testimony to you that this is the doctrine of Christ, the Gospel of Jesus, which is the power of God unto salvation. It is "Mormonism." But there is muc
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